Barnaby Joyce on getting on with Pauline Hanson and One Nation’s rise

Barnaby Joyce’s political career has hit the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.

He’s been Nationals leader and deputy prime minister twice. As a senator, he was a maverick, often crossing the floor. As party leader, he had a dramatic falling out then prime minister Malcolm Turnbull. Later he delivered vital Nationals support for net zero emissions to then prime minister Scott Morrison, even while personally disagreeing strongly with the policy.

Just two months ago, he decamped to the reinvigorated One Nation as the minor party’s popularity has soared, with some polls even putting it ahead of the Liberals and Nationals.

Joyce joins us to talk about how he sees One Nation’s future and his own.

On his defection to One Nation, Joyce says One Nation’s “strength” and “clarity of policy” attracted to him to the party, at the same time as his working relationship with Nationals leader David Littleproud became “completely dysfunctional”.

It was discordant. I was becoming bitter, and that’s not the mind space that I want to be in. Obviously, Mr Littleproud has talked about generational change, which was afoot in regards me, which was a case of “I want you out of here” […] And at 58 […] I thought I had more to offer my nation. And so those two factors coming together brought about my defection to One Nation, where I believe […] I have purpose and I’m not just withering on the vine in the corner of oblivion.

Joyce says his community in New England has been “overwhelmingly supportive” of his move:

People don’t believe that, but I had another media outlet up the other day and they said, “can we go down the street and can you find people for us to talk to about this?”. I said that won’t be too hard […] We couldn’t get 150 metres up the street […] Their words were “it’s like going for a walk down the street with the Pope”.

While saying his current intention is to run for a New South Wales Senate seat, Joyce says “it’s not impossible” he could still recontest his lower house seat of New England if that’s what One Nation wants.

You have to have a discussion with the party and the party also determines what is good for them. You can’t run for anything unless the party agrees to it and that’s the same with all political parties […] So the plan is to stand for the Senate for New South Wales, but I don’t want to rule things out, because if that circumstance changed you’d be a liar.

[…] As we get closer people will […] make a decision about what’s best. At this point in time, it is my wish – and other people have agreed – that it would be standing for the Senate.

One Nation has had big problems with some candidates and parliamentarians in the past. But Joyce says it’s becoming better at vetting:

What you have to appreciate is the growth of the party and where Pauline started. You remember the party was basically gone, finished. And Pauline Hanson, who had been put in jail by the Coalition, let’s be frank […] she’s had to build it up. And of course as you build a party up, you get more resources, so you get more capacity to have the sort of a closer oversight of what’s going on […] So the process of selecting a candidate will be more forensic, and it has to be.

On fears their big personalities might clash, Joyce says he gets on well with Pauline Hanson.

I did not go into this relationship on a flight of fancy or a fit of pique. I considered it over a year. I had multiple meetings with Pauline and [… others in the party]. I’ve known them for a long period of time […] I feel that I get along well with Pauline […] I respect what she has done and what she has created for Australia.

Asked about Hanson’s burqa wearing stunt in the Senate late last year, Joyce says “obviously, I’m not going to be wearing a burqa” – but also said “that’s theatre, really, isn’t it?”.

On whether he ever has nightmares that he could “blow” this latest phase of his political life, Joyce says:

I think everybody can blow it […] I’m a human being and I’ve certainly made my mistakes. And I don’t resign from them. I apologise for them, but I think people have been accepting and forgiving of them to be quite frank. And I thank people for that […] We’re a lot more sanitised in this building [Parliament House] than when I first got elected in 2004.